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Old 11-25-04, 12:53 AM
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Okay, my turn
 
(JB, sorry for hijacking your thread and turning it into the Glinda and Maddy debate)

There is no line item fee that I know of at my clinic for culture medium. I guess it's understood that using culture is a necessary part of the fertilization and growth process (just like an operating room is necessary for retrieval/transfer
 
). Yes, there is an out of town management fee at my clinic. (I happen to disagree with this fee but I'll take the other side just so I can butt heads with you) See, they actually have to pick up the phone and call me and since I live in Zimbabwe, the toll charges add up
 
. It's a fee for a service they provide. It would be alot easier on them if they didn't have to deal/track down other drs and labs. They have to deal with third party involvement. The fee is $240. My clinic once sent me for b/w and u/s for 10 days in a row. That's an additional 20 steps (blood lab and u/s lab) that they had to be involved with. They wouldn't have had to do that if I cycled there. It still doesn't compare to $745 for a room with paper robes. I feel it's an unfair charge because it's not really an extra. It's a given. The room didn't depreciate when you walked into it. I can get you a better deal at The Plaza
 
. As for the versed etal, it didn't cost me a dime. There is a fee for going under anesthesia and that's because they bring in an anesthesiologist for the administration. I did light IV sedation with versed and fentanyl. There was no cost for the nurse to hook me up. I always take those booties as a souvenir so maybe they should be charging me.


I understand fluff as it pertains to submitting bills to the insurance companies. We both know insurance companies suck! However, what about the people who do IVF and have no insurance coverage. They are not getting reimbursed for that $745 paper robe
 
.


If PGD worked in the manner you described then there would probably be alot of clinics going out of business. And the ones that stayed in business would be charging us $100,000 for that perfect cycle with the perfect embryo with the guaranteed pg and perfect baby. We, multiple failure women, would cease to exist. Now that would be perfect!

With regards to the Glinda protocol...I rarely drink. When I was doing IUIs, I was cycling every month. I noticed, in hindsight, the months that I had a glass of wine, I got pg. They give us valium before transfer to relax us. I just relax a little more making my uterus nice and comfy. I read an article, can't remember where, that pasta (starch) actually helped implantation rates. Something about stickiness. So have a glass of wine with your pasta and think of me
 
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Old 11-25-04, 03:06 AM
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I just think IVF costs too much - period.
 
It's all expensive and they overcharge us. LOL!!

I once asked a nurse, "Why does this cost SO much?" and just today I asked the pharmacy, "Why does it cost $6000 for drugs?" and they all just stare at me with this blank "ummmm" kinda stare.

I guess we do it because we want a baby....no matter the cost.

I will email Dr. L and ask her theory on PGD and embryo glue and then just forward it to you. LOL!! I think that just may be easier.

Ok, wine, pasta and thougts of Glinda.
 

 
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Old 11-25-04, 07:09 PM
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I love this debate/discussion, i think its really healthy and informative. No one is attacking anyone just stating opinions and of course this is going to vary according to our experiences etc with IVF and just life in general.

Firstly Glinda do you really live in Zimbabwe? WOW! I hitchiked around there on my own in 1990, isnt that just crazy!!!

Ok the discussion has gotten off Assisted Hatching and moved onto embryo glue, PGD and costs etc. There are so many interesting points to pick up on both your discussions here. Thanks so much for the info on assisted hatching, your'e right Glinda i can do as much research as i can but at the end of the day its based on gut feeling and putting everything into this cycle. Next monday i go for my scan to check my lining. My nurse will ring after and i am going to tell her i want the assisted hatching. She will probably fight me cause technically my clinic doesnt offer this anymore. Unfortunately for them they did send me an old form that did offer me this facility and i can argue that and will. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself, at the end of the day they will forget me in a day or so. I need to know i tried everything! I can't thank you guy enough for answering my question and helping me to decide this.

OK onto PGD. I have done FIVE PGD cycles and you know what its never worked for ME. Analeise is the non PGD'd embie i put back cause the PGD male never took. I have had extensive conversations with the embrologists at my clinic regarding PGD and my feeling is you have to ask the right questions to get answers and figure things out for yourself.

PGD is ideal to elimate those embies that have the most common chromosone abnormalities like downs syndrome, turners syndrome etc, but it can only test for 8 or 9 chromsone abnormalites with a 90% success rate, so you could still have a PGD embie implant and take that had some other chromosone disorder they cant currently test for. I've had 'normal' PGD embies (normal as in they passed the 8 chromosone test) transferred and it didnt work, i find this incredibly frustrating.

My personal opinion based on ME only is this. PGD weakens my embies. I base this on no normals implanting and i have had normals die in the lab before transfer. I think it is too much of a strain in them early in life and i believe this is cause at my age (41.3) my eggs are obviously declining. At my clinic they dont really offer the stats anywhere and when you start pushing i was quite shocked to discover only like 80 PGD babies were born last year and i cant remember now from how many pGD cycles that was (but over 2,000).

Moving onto charging for culture, that's outrageous! You have to culture the embies in something! Then again what does your clinic charge for storage? Ours is an iniital fee of $175 and then i think $75 every 6 months. Everything is extra now isnt it.

Glinda, i like your non intrusive superstitions. I stopped doing this and that after about 2 or 3 cycles. I have a wine with dinner if i want, but i am not fussed on the pineapple theory! I already tried the acupunture the last 2 stim cycles and it didnt work so i am leaving it out this time. I am doing the colorado with this FET so taking asprin now and will start pessaries and/or crinone gel next week.

I also have a theory on blasts - they dont' work for me. Better in than out. Again i base this on my IVF experiences. I have made over 50 embryos, none have ever made it to day 6 and frozen - that is why i insisted they freeze them last time on day 3 and 4. Why would Analeise - 1 embie out of over 50 have survived to a blast? Odds just are not in her favour, she's here cause i transferred her day 4.

I guess you have to believe what you believe based on your own experiences and knowledge. If i knew what i know now i would not have done PGD my 1st cycle, but after so many miscarriages i was too scared to just put any old embies back.
Well this is long enough, i need to get back to work, but i really enjoy these interesting discussions!
JB
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Old 11-25-04, 09:00 PM
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JB, Zimbabwe was my New York sense of humor. I once asked my clinic to rationalize the out of town management fee and the response was "phone calls". I live in Manhattan. My clinic is right outside of Philadelphia. It's a 1.5 to 2 hour drive. I don't have the best phone plan and it's 7 cents a minute for out of state calls. They literally spend 30 seconds on the phone with you to give you your blood work results. Even if you live down the block from the clinic, they have to call you back with your results. Traveling through Zimbabwe must have been exciting. I haven't traveled in a long time. I spend all my money on ttc. I love seeing the world and feel fortunate that I've been to Europe, Africa and Asia but I'd give up my passion in a heartbeat and never step foot out of the U.S. again if only I was assured of a baby.

I'm glad you came to a decision that is comfortable for you. You're right. At the end of the day, we need to know we gave it our all. I have no doubts that you have.

We get charged for alot of ridiculous stuff here. I think alot of it has to do with insurance companies. I don't know how it works down under but if you ever look at an itemized hospital bill here, they even charge you around $5 for an aspirin. I think embryo storage at my clinic is $250.

I agree that PGD weakens embryos. That's why I couldn't do it. I didn't have that many embryos to start playing around with. I had to let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately, the results weren't good. Blasts aren't for everyone. I feel embryos are meant to be in a uterus. The faster they put them back there, the better.

Drinking wine truly makes sense to me. Think of all those women who accidentally got pg while drunk
 
. Pineapple is not a miracle drug. It's the bromelain in it that can help. Same concept as the wine, it reduces inflammation. I never thought I would be a person to promote acupuncture. I felt it was too hippie/Woodstock for me. Now I swear by it. I have seen the difference it makes in my lining thickness. I was also very sick over the summer. I had mysterious tingling in my face, chest pains, pains shooting through my head, my teeth even hurt. Drs started sending me for tests. I did alot of b/w. One dr suggested I see a neurologist. I had EKGs. I was very scared. I turned to my acupuncture dr, who runs a fertility practice, after extensive internet research and said stick needles in my face. I diagnosed myself with a severe sinus infection even though the symptoms suggested other things. For 3 months, I seriously thought I was dying. After a few sessions with needles in my cheeks and forehead, my pains have gone away. Acupuncture may not be for everyone but now I'm a believer.
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Old 11-29-04, 06:53 PM
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Glinda, agree with a lot of your 'findings'! Makes you realise too what works for you might not work for me. Like i know blasts don't work for me, better in than out. I've made over 50 embies and they don't like hanging around in a petri dish!

I have had success on the acupunture too. When i was first trying, we had been ttc for 14 months when i when to see a naturopath and acupunturist at the same clinic. Within weeks i was pregnant naturally, sadly i lost my beloved beanster at 9 weeks from this pregnancy but i know the herbs & acupunture had to do with this initial success.

ooohhhhhh I didn't realise you lived in the same city as the Sex In the City girls! We had the final eposide here 2 weeks ago.....big hole in my monday nights now.
Keep in touch!
JB
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